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Exclusive! Joey Vera: Fuel For The Engine By Diana DeVille, Rock Goddess Thursday, August 8, 2002 @ 9:12 PM
JOEY VERA: Well, Fates Warning has been around since about 1985-86, and Ray didn’t get involved until later. They had another singer, John Arch, who was their first singer, and Ray didn’t come in until about 1989 on the No Exit record. I had been friends with those guys pretty much from day one. We were all on Metal Blade, and we had that Metal Blade connection in the very beginning, and whenever we would come into town (they were originally from Connecticut), whenever we would tour Connecticut, Jim specifically and a couple of the other guys in the band, would come out and see Armored Saint and hang out, whatever, so we kinda became friends, and whenever they came out to L.A. to record, we’d wind up hooking up or vice versa, so I’ve always been friends with the Fates Warning guys since day one. When Joe, their bass player, decided he didn’t want to tour anymore (I think this was in 1995, 1996), they pretty much just called me and asked me if I would be interested in coming on board in any capacity, and at that point I was already doing a lot of different things, so I came into the situation as, well, ‘I will be the hired guy because I want to be able to do other things,’ and they were okay with that. That’s how it’s been ever since -- that was about 1996.
Through that, I never knew Ray all that well before that, so once I got involved with Fates at that time and we did several tours and three records and since then, I got really close to Ray, we became really good friends and had a lot of same interests and stuff. He was the one who originally wanted to do Engine. He was getting into a lot of stuff -- this was several years ago, but he was getting into stuff like the first Filter record, the first Deftones record and started to listening to what was becoming slightly “new-school” stuff back then. This was probably about 1997, so it really wasn’t that long ago. He really started digging it and wanted to do something on the side. He didn’t know what it was going to be or how he would do it. He doesn’t play any instruments; he just has all these ideas and melodies in his head. So the story goes that he eventually hooked up with a couple of different people but ended up hooking up with Bernie Versailles, who plays guitar in Engine now, and they started this collaboration really from the beginning and they started writing songs together. They wrote a whole bunch of songs, but still at that point, who knew what was going to happen? He didn’t know if he was going to make a record, if he wanted to have a band; he was just doing it for fun, I think, in the beginning. But after they wrote about ten songs, they let Brian [Slagel] at Metal Blade hear it, and he was like, “Wow, this is really cool, you should make a record.” So it started out as a solo project for him.
I came in the picture obviously because we’re friends, and I knew he was doing this, and I started busting his balls. I said, “Who else are you going to get to play bass? I’ll be pissed off if it’s not me.” [laughs]. So I kinda forced my way into that, and we made the first record and started this little side project sort of career that we’ve got going. I’m not sure, I think career is maybe a strong term for it, but we’re on our second record, so I guess…”
KNAC.COM: Now the first record came out in 1999. When did you decide to do a second record, and how did that decision come about? 
VERA: Well, we wanted to do one sooner, to be honest with you, because we were really disappointed that, because we were in all these other bands, it got in the way of us doing any touring or spending any time promoting the first record, so the first record got some pretty good acclaim as far as the journalistic world, got some good reviews and I think it even got some decent airplay in place, but for the most part, nobody knows anything about it unless they were in tune with what Fates Warning or Armored Saint was doing, and through those sort of ways. It was a drag that we never got to do any touring on it and that the record just kind of fizzled out. We planned on doing one a little earlier, but a lot of other things got in the way. Fates did Disconnected, and Armored Saint did a couple of records, Revelation and Nod to the Old School, so we were both busy with other things. The timing was just about right to do one. We should have done earlier, and to be honest with you, I feel like we rushed this record. It seems like we didn’t, but we did. We decided, we should make a record this year -- I think that was July or September of last year. Ray and Bernie hurried up and wrote songs, and we were in the studio rehearsing by late November.
KNAC.COM: So it was pretty much a matter of timing? You had this pocket of time. VERA: Yes, there was a pocket of time, exactly. KNAC.COM: You have become quite the experienced producer, having done many of the Metal Blade projects including the last couple of Armored Saint records. How do you like producing? VERA: I love it. I love it, but I do have a limit. I mean, I wouldn’t do it… it’s a rough existence sitting in a studio for ten to twelve hours a day, sometimes for thirty days straight. It gets a little taxing. So I’m not sure I would really want to do it 8-9 months out of the year. I mean, that would be a lot. I’d never see the light of the day, I wouldn’t see my friends; I wouldn’t be able to have a life, basically. So it’s a really hard thing to do. KNAC.COM: It just seems you kinda get thrown into that. I remember when we talked about Armored Saint and you were producing that. It was like, someone had to take the reins and that someone was you. It fell in your lap almost. VERA: Yeah, it’s partially, in a sense… I have to admit that part of it is also trying to save a little bit of money. I’ve been doing it long enough that I know how to get by and get around things. I’m by no means great at what I do technically, but I do know enough to get around and get the record done, so in that sense it saves us at this point, when we’re not making hoards of money. We get a recording budget, and it’s like, we could hire this really expensive guy who’s the bomb, but it’s gonna cost us three-quarters of the budget just to have him work on the record. So a lot of the time it’s just financial reasons to consider someone like me to do the record. KNAC.COM: Well, I know I thought Revelation was great. I thought you did a great job on that. VERA: Yeah, I think I did a pretty good job on that record, and Bill Metoyer also had a hand in that and mixed the record in the end. That was important to me because I was so close to the record for, I think we recorded for two months straight. At that point I was just driving in snow. It was hard for me to be objective, so I thought it was best to bring in someone who hadn’t been there the whole time, and that was Bill. He came in with fresh ears and put all the pieces together. KNAC.COM: How do you approach producing a record? Any particular preparation you need to do to get ready for something like that?
VERA: Yeah, you’ve got to be really open-minded and expect anything. You’ve got to be able to just go with the flow, but at the same time you need to take charge a lot of times. There’s a lot of psychology involved in working with people, especially people that you’ve never met before, so you have to be able to play referee. There’s this whole mindset you go into: What’s going to happen this time? It’s kind of weird. KNAC.COM: In producing projects that you yourself are involved with, do you ever find conflicting viewpoints as Joey the producer versus Joey the musician? VERA: (Thinks a moment and then answers) Yeah, I would say that. KNAC.COM: How do you handle that? VERA: At that point I would ask someone else in the room or someone else involved with the project. I certainly second guess myself a lot more than I probably should, but there’s always occasions where I’m not sure about something or don’t know the right way to do something. I’ll often ask someone else in the room, “What do you think about this?” It doesn’t mean I will listen to them [laughs]. Sometimes I’ll get several opinions and my gut will be telling me that I need to go this way, but then again, sometimes someone will bring something up that I hadn’t thought of, and I think, “That’s it. There’s the answer.” KNAC.COM: On top of being a producer and musician, you’re also an accomplished songwriter, another hat that you wear. What was your role in the writing of Superholic? Did you have anything to do with the actual songwriting? VERA: Not really. It’s more Ray and Bernie’s brainchild as far as the music goes. They come up with all the music parts and stuff together. My input, especially on Superholic more so than the first record, was more after the fact. It was the slight arrangements things like, “Maybe this bridge should reoccur later in the song” or “the chorus should go twice as long” or “you should sing this part again,” those kind of things. I wouldn’t really call it songwriting. It’s more like arrangement stuff. I had a lot more input in that sense on this record. This record was written, even though it took forever between the two records, we decided, “Okay, let’s do a record,” in September, and then it was, “Oh shit, we’ve got to write songs”. So it was rushed a bit, and I’m not sure we were 100% ready to make the record. We were easily 90% ready, but there was still 10% that was still loose. So even when we went into the record, when we started recording, some of the arrangements we weren’t quite sure about, like “How long should this part go?” “Oh, I don’t know, we’ll figure it out in the studio.” Alot of times Ray wouldn’t even write lyrics until the day he’s singing. It was that loose in a lot of sense. And also the method we did it, we did it on ProTools. That gave us a lot more freedom to, “Well, let’s see what the song sounds like with the chorus doubled up at the end.” So it was really just a matter of me going in and getting the song and cutting and pasting to see what it sounds like with the chorus doubled up. KNAC.COM: Working the magic… VERA: Yeah, and then ten minutes later going listening to the song thinking, “That’s too long, do it half that” or things like that. So that’s another technical/creative part that is part of the input from someone like me who is outside. Not the songwriter but someone having input as far as arrangements and stuff like that. KNAC.COM: With that in mind, how much time did you have to come up with the bass parts before jumping into the producer’s chair? 
VERA: [laughs] Not a whole lot. It was crazy, because they were writing. I hadn’t heard, well I had heard a couple of songs before, sometime in mid-November. It was only like five songs. I was thinking, “Man, we’re not going to be ready. December 1st is just around the corner.” Ray said, “Don’t worry, don’t worry.” I heard a couple of songs, then went on vacation. I was home for two days, then went out and mixed the Seven Witches record. I went to New Jersey and was there for ten days, and the day I came back, Ray handed me another disc and this time there was eight songs on it. I thought, “Okay, at least we have eight songs. That’s better than five.” That was a Friday, so I spent the Friday and Saturday learning the eight songs, and we started rehearsal on Sunday. We rehearsed Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and we started recording on Thursday. So for me, it was more just getting through the songs. Just getting the arrangements, getting through the songs...not so much figuring out what the bass parts are. This happened on the first Engine record too. We do things a little unusual. We do the drums first and then we do all the guitars and then I play the bass at the end of it. Normally most bands do bass and drums first and then they do guitars. We would often put most of the guitars down before I played the bass, and it gave me a chance to listen to the drum track. I’m the type of player, especially with Engine, the emphasis really is between the bass guitar and the drums... so it gave me time to get used to listening to the drum tracks and figuring out what the kick drum patterns are, and it sort of spells itself out to me at that point what the bass should be doing. But there’s a couple of things… like, I’d be like “I’m kind of repeating myself here. I don’t know what to do,” and Ray or Bernie would come in and say, “Why don’t you do this,” something I’d never thought of, and I thought, “Yeah, that’s kind of cool,” so then they pitch it too, of course.
Sometimes, since Bernie’s writing the music, the guitar parts and stuff, he will often come up with a counterpart to the guitar part, which is the bass part, so a lot of times that is already written before I ever show up.
KNAC.COM: Which could also be helpful recording the guitars before, because you get that framework in which to work. VERA: Exactly. So we know what’s going to happen, because it’s been thought of before. It’s cool, you know, it’s got a little bit of both. It’s got some structure and some openness. You have to have a little freedom there. KNAC.COM: With that in mind, how much more of a challenge is it to interpret someone else’s song as opposed to something you wrote yourself as far as deciding on musical and production decisions? VERA: It’s not that much of a challenge. It depends on what situation I’m in. A lot of times I know… With Armored Saint it’s a whole different ball of wax because I’m really close to it and I have a large part in just everything. I’m a borderline control freak with that band. [laughs]. KNAC.COM: That’s kind of what I had in mind when I thought of this question, because I know you’re really close to Armored Saint and that’s your “baby,” and with Engine it’s a completely different thing where somebody else comes in with everything… 
VERA: Yes, and even with Fates Warning that’s true, Fates more so than Engine. But I’m pretty good at knowing what my role in when I go into something right away, from the get go. I know what’s expected of me, and where the line is that I don’t need to bother crossing, so I’m pretty aware of, whatever situation I’m getting into, what my boundaries are, and I’m totally okay with that. I walk in totally comfortable with, “Okay, this is what’s expected of me.” I know when to keep my mouth shut, and I know when to open it. Sometimes there’s times when I should offer an opinion, and there’s times when it’s not warranted, so I just sometimes bite my tongue, and so be it.
KNAC.COM: Well, I’m sure it helps that you’re working with friends, people that you’ve known for a while. VERA: Yeah, I mean that obviously helps a lot, because then I can go, “You know, I want to be honest with you about something...” [laughs] It’s [easier] than if it were a complete stranger, where they don’t know where I’m coming from. KNAC.COM: So, as far as Superholic goes, how would describe the music on this record? VERA: I’ve never been asked that; I don’t know. [He thinks about the question for a moment] I don’t know, I always tell people that it’s… I don’t know the terms nowadays. I don’t know what they mean anymore. Modern metal, new school metal, I’m not sure what they mean. I always tell people, “It’s modern metal, nu school metal, but there’s no rapping, and there’s a lot of melodies, but the music’s really heavy… but the music’s really simple. It’s not really convoluted and crazy. The music’s actually really straight ahead, you know, straightforward. It’s hard to describe really. It’s funny, I was talking to someone about this the other day, and we’re kind of in a weird spot, because we’re heavier than a lot of modern bands, but we’re not as heavy as a lot of nu school bands, so we’re kind of in this grey area in between, which is kind of bad, actually. Well it’s good, because I think we’re doing something that there are not a lot of bands doing that’s very similar. Obviously we have influences from Deftones and Filter, but that’s just because of where the music’s coming from. It’s good because we’re doing that, because it’s on its own, but the bad thing is that we have trouble, especially right now, finding someone to tour with or finding a niche to be involved with. People like, no matter what you say, they like to categorize stuff. They like to say, “This is this kind of band, and they’re all over here, and these are these kinds of bands and they’re all over there,” and if you don’t belong to any of those bands, sometimes you get overlooked because people don’t know what to make of you; they can’t put a stamp on you. So it can be harmful when it gets to that point. KNAC.COM: Interesting. I would think that that would be a good thing, because being in the middle like that it could go either way. You could tour with the hardcore, or you could tour with the new school. VERA: Well that’s the thing. I think that, once given the chance, we could hold our own with either side. I think that a band like oh, I don’t know, Fuel or something like that, I don’t know, someone who’s heavy but also more commercially pop, we could probably get away with playing with a band like that, because even though the music is pretty heavy and aggressive, the vocals are pretty melodic for the most part -- there’s a few parts where Ray is screaming and stuff -- but for the most part, it’s really melodic stuff. So we could probably get away with playing in front of a crowd that’s into that. On the other hand, playing in front of In Flames or Meshuggah or something like that, we could get away with that as well. We might have a harder time, but I think we could get away with that. You’ve seen the band live -- it’s a high-energy band; it’s not like we are jumping around posing or anything. There’s a lot of energy, it’s very aggressive and even though there’s still melodies in the vocals, it’s still very hard edged. 
KNAC.COM: And you’re very fun to watch on stage [laughs]. VERA: (Laughs) I have fun up there; I have a lot of fun. So that’s the weird thing. It’s kind of starting to feel the pinch right about now. At this point we can tour with anybody; we don’t have a preference. We just have to go out there and play live, because the bottom line is that people can read about the record, or even hear it on the radio or online or MP3 downloads or wherever they’re going to try to hear the record, but until the person really sees the band live, that’s really when you either win people over or they hate you. So that’s a really big issue with the band that we need to start getting into. KNAC.COM: So if you think about it, you’re the perfect opening band, because there is going to be something in your music somewhere that is going to fit in with what someone else is doing. VERA: Yeah. I hope I’m not going to spill the beans too much on this, but we might be getting this tour with W.A.S.P. Supposedly that is confirmed. KNAC.COM: That would be interesting. VERA: That’s the weird thing. At first I thought “W.A.S.P.? We’re going to die. That’s going to be horrible,” but I think we could still hold up in front of a band like that because the people who are going to see W.A.S.P., they’re a mixture of people. There are people who are my age, who are the older generation, those people who are still into listening to metal from the heyday… KNAC.COM: Old school. VERA: Old school. I’m okay with that. I am old school. That’s all right, and there’s nothing wrong with old school. But Engine was trying to get away from that because of what our associations are. Our associations are Armored Saint and Fates Warning, and for Bernie, Agent Steel, which kind of has an old school association. We are trying to kind of get away from that, only in the sense that we feel like the kids who are listening to bands like In Flames and Meshuggah, or Fuel and even Blink 182 for that matter, it doesn’t matter, but people who are younger who kind of look at old school metal and laugh, they’re never going to give us the time of day if they know who we are and where we come from and what this perception is of us, so this is the reason why we’re trying to break away from it. But having said that, the important thing is that we need to be on the road, and I think this tour could be really good for us. We’re going to playing for a group of people who maybe normally wouldn’t come to see us, because they’re older, they’re people who are from the old school. Then again, maybe there will be people who didn’t get into W.A.S.P until Headless Children or a record later than that, so they’re really not old school fans. Maybe they didn’t get into metal until the early to mid 1990’s, so they’re really not old school fans; they’re listening to a lot of different stuff. So those are people that we’re also going to be able to reach that we wouldn’t normally be able to. So once I thought about it, after a while, it’s going to be a win-win situation for us, not to mention it’s either that (where we play in front of six hundred people) or we go headline and play in front of ten people [laughs]. KNAC.COM: How did you come up with the title Superholic, and what does it mean? VERA: I think Ray has to answer that. Ray came up with the title. I don’t think it means anything to be honest with you; I think it’s a word he made up. Is it in the dictionary? Have you looked?
VERA: I was actually going to look it up because someone asked me a similar question the other day. I don’t think it means anything. I think he just made it up. Ray’s way into cars obviously. He loves cars, and he’s got a subscription to Motortrends. [Laughs] I don’t know if he does or not, I’m joking. He’s always reading these magazines and he’s just way into hotrods; and just everything about cars. “Superholic” comes from that; it comes from his love of cars. So I think it stands for something; I just don’t know what. It sounds cool. It kind of has a combination of like alcohol and nitrous oxide; you know, a lot of turbo systems in cars that use nitrous oxide… KNAC.COM: Umm, okay. VERA: So there’s this whole souped-up feeling that comes from hotrods, and “holic” is maybe from alcoholic, because maybe we’re all alcoholics [laughs]. So maybe it’s this souped-up, crazy high-energy thing. KNAC.COM: Well, that works for me. That sounds as good a definition as any. So now, do you have a favorite track from the record? VERA: Actually, I like the title track a lot, “Superholic,” because it’s really unusual, and when [Ray] first played it for me on demo, I thought it was the most interesting thing of the lot of them. It’s got this really cool sample that plays over and over through most of the verses and the intro, so it’s got this really cool… it’s just it’s unusual, it’s not your average rock song: “Guitars, drums come in, bass guitar, everyone starts screaming.” [laughs] It’s cool, it’s kind of moody, that’s what I like about it. It’s quite a departure from anything that they have written. They almost didn’t put it on, and I was like, “Oh no, no, this is great. You’ve got to put this on the record.” KNAC.COM: This is where the producer puts his foot down… VERA: Well, not really put my foot down, but I was championing it. I was like, “We’ve got to work this out. This is cool… just go with it.” In fact Bernie had written this thing, which is the beginning, weird noises at the beginning, on this little sampler that he has, and the whole time Ray kept saying, “Oh that was just for the demo. We have to rewrite it and get a better sampler and better sounds for it.” I said, “Why? It sounds great. Just leave it. Let’s just use the existing sounds that were on the demo, put them into the song and record drums and bass and guitars over it.” So that’s what we wound up doing. That’s my favorite. I also like the opening track because it’s just so brutal -- “Losing Ground.” It’s a good song. Those are probably my two favorites. KNAC.COM: Tell me about the cover of “Fascination Street” by the Cure. Your thoughts? VERA: Both Ray and I are both Cure fans, especially from Disintegration. It’s a great record: it’s the consummate tour record. Someone on the bus always had Disintegration, or maybe even two or three people had it with Fates Warning. So it’s just one of those awesome records, and “Fascination Street” is just a great song. It’s kind of interesting because, like a lot of Cure songs, nothing changes. It’s the same part over and over and over. But the way that they recorded it, with the vocals by Robert Smith, is just makes the whole thing captivating, and it’s not boring. You forget that there’s no changes; it just keeps going on along. The thing is almost seven minutes. We never realized that. Anyway, Ray used to always say, “This would be a great song to redo. Just think that the bass part is the main part of the song. Just think about if the guitar were playing the bass part. I thought, “Man, that’d be a really heavy riff.” So that was something that he wanted to do for several years. I think he even talked about it during the record. So we just tried it. It wasn’t until that point when we realized, you know, it’s a little different when it’s guitar and bass and drums playing the same part for seven minutes. It gets a little bit like, “alright already.” This is a metal band and we needed to do something, and then we realized, “Damn, this thing is seven minutes long!” So we had to do a little editing and cut it down a little bit. We even rearranged it after we had recorded everything because we were in ProTools and we decided that there wasn’t enough energy at the end of the song, so we had to cut some pieces out and bring things up so that the energy caught your attention quicker and drove it home quicker. KNAC.COM: You totally “Engine-ized” the song; whereas, instead of doing a straight cover, you took the song and did it your own way. 
VERA: Yeah. We had to. It’s a trip, because if you listen to it, we added extra parts, we added some extra guitar parts, and mostly in the way that we played the rhythm it makes it seem like parts change, but the parts never really change. The chord structure is still the same, so we were true to the Cure in that sense, that we kept the chord structure the same. We just played with the dynamics and the way that we actually played the structure. It was actually pretty challenging, because it took forever. Even in rehearsal, in those three days we had for rehearsal, it was like, “It sounds GREAT for two minutes, and then it’s boring.” [laughs] What are we going to do? I don’t know; we’ll just put weird noises on it. We’ll just make it work somehow. We didn’t know. We had no idea. So we figured, “It sounds great for two minutes. Maybe we can squeeze out another three with weird noises and stuff; at least it will be five minutes long.” So it kinda came to life in the studio, which is pretty cool.
KNAC.COM: Well that’s the beauty of it. You can play it however you want to, and then you have ProTools so you can go and experiment with it. How does that translate live, when you get out there on a stage? VERA: Well hopefully by that point you’ve already worked out all those little details. You have to accommodate certain things. We’re not editing the song, but we are using some samples live that are being triggered either by Bernie or by one of the crew guys offstage. There are some parts in the songs that are necessary or they help sound wise, so you get away with it. Normally we are a four-piece, so there’s not two guitar players, so we kinda have to make do with certain things. Most of the things we are sampling are not guitar parts. They’re noises that we created that either come from guitars or that in ProTools, we just gnashed them...You know, put backwards, put tons of crap, reverb and delay on it and turned it back around, and just distorted, horrible sounds that we just made. So they come from guitars but it’s not like a guitar player could come in and duplicate it; it would never work. KNAC.COM: Now generally speaking, how do you feel about doing recorded samples during the live show? Do you think it takes away from it? VERA: No, I think it’s fine, as long as someone is actually performing it. The thing I don’t like is lip-synching. That’s a whole other ball of wax, but we’re not really talking about that. There’s some bands, obviously, that are playing to a pre-recorded tape that has a lot of background vocals and harmonies and a second or third guitar part, horn sections and who knows what else -- I’m kinda iffy on that. I don’t totally agree with that. But on the other hand, I don’t think there’s any problem with using a sampler as another instrument as long as someone’s performing it, because with a sampler, it takes a human to actually either push a button or hit a trigger. Fates Warning has been doing that for years. Mark Zonder, the drummer, has all kinds of weird samples on his drum set. His stuff is either drum sounds or industrial noises, but he’s actually playing them, and that to me is fine. It’s like another instrument. It’s like having a keyboard player really. KNAC.COM: Yeah, keyboards can do amazing things. VERA: Yeah. I mean, I don’t really like keyboard players in rock bands though. I don’t know, I can’t really say that, because I love bands like Deep Purple and stuff like that, that do have keyboardists, but you know, in the age of metal, when it sort of flowered in the eighties, I don’t know, to me it was just like “Aaaaaahhhhhhh, it doesn’t belong. Get it out of there.” [laughs] So, I don’t think it belongs. I mean, if you’re going to do stuff, I say sample it. Make the guitar player hit a button on the floor, and some keyboard noise comes out. But keep your keyboard player offstage. KNAC.COM: So personally, what do you think about -- because obviously you can do a lot more in the studio than you can live -- so, what do you think about making records that are not easy to capture on stage, as far as you have to do a lot of sampling and that sort of thing? 
VERA: I don’t know. I think a lot of that depends on the artist. I’m kinda split on it. If it was my band -- it’s easy for me to answer the other side of the question -- but if it was my band, I would be worried about it, because I would be like, “Okay, how are we going to pull this off?” But on the other hand, maybe even thinking as a producer type person, I think the most important thing is making a great record, so whatever it takes to get there, you do it. Don’t limit yourself by like, “Well, how’s the band going to play it live?” That to me should be an afterthought. Bottom line is, you’re in there to make a great record. You’re in the business to make records, so make a great record, make it sound great. As long as… unless your intention is to sound like ABBA, with four thousand harmonies and that sort of thing, don’t even go there. But if you’re a rock band, and there’s some elements that are going to help the song have its own bite on the record, then don’t limit yourself by saying, “How are we going to do this live? We’ll never be able to… we don’t have that… the bass player doesn’t sing that well, he can’t sing that harmony.” [laughs] Worry about it later. I almost think sometimes, you know you’ll see some bands, and sometimes they’re not doing the little nuances that perhaps the producer put in the record, and you don’t miss them, unless it’s something drastic.
KNAC.COM: It seems, though, that if you put it on the record, you should be able to find some way to maybe… if you have to get a backup singer, to have the backup singer come out on the road with you or something…VERA: Yeah. KNAC.COM: But you want it to translate well live because that’s your selling tool right there, you’re out there selling your record across the country. VERA: Yeah, there’s a fine line there, because like I said, say you’re a rock band, and some producer comes in and says, “No, you should sound like ABBA”, so then they listen to him, and they make this record that sounds like ABBA, but in reality they’re this garage rock band, you know, like White Stripes or something… and how are these two people going to pull off something that the producer made sound like there’s forty people in the band? That’s a bad decision, because the intention has been distorted. KNAC.COM: Sometimes you hear a record that has been really overly produced, and you know there’s no way they are going to take that live on the road. What do you do? VERA: It depends on the band and their budget. It depends on a lot of things. KNAC.COM: I think that’s kind of fallen by the wayside… I don’t know, like with all the boy bands and things like that, I guess it’s possible but recording budgets generally have been stripped down now, so you don’t really have the luxury to pull off all the bells and whistles. You just have to put it down on tape. And that’s a good thing, because you want to be as true to yourself as you can be. VERA: Yeah, and there’s another argument too, that a good song is a good song. And if it’s a good song, it doesn’t need all the bells and whistles on it. That goes against maybe what someone like me, who would be wanting to put on the bells and whistles, just because I can [laughs], because we have ProTools, because we have six thousand tracks, we can put bells and whistles on it and it’ll sound great. But it’s not always necessary and it’s not always right. KNAC.COM: Do you find that the members of Engine have finally “gelled” as a band by this second release as opposed to being simply a “side project” to everything else you have going on? Do you feel like you are a “real” band? VERA: That’s kind of funny, because there hasn’t really been a reason to feel like a “real” band until these West Coast shows that we just did, because we were actually living together and traveling around together, granted that it was just for five days. Like I said, we never did anything like that. The first record came out, and we didn’t do any touring on it. We played one show at the Garage, and a year later we played at the Dynamo festival in Holland, and four months after that we played Wacken in Germany; that was it. So other than making the record, of course I got to know Bernie really well. Bernie and I get along great, so Ray, Bernie and I are the ones that work together and makes the records happen. The drummer, Pete, is usually pretty busy with his band Face to Face, so even on the first record he did his parts and then for the most part he wasn’t there a lot. He’d come around when we were mixing and stuff like that, but he was busy with his other project. And the same thing is happening this time. He did his stuff, he came around occasionally when we were mixing, and he’s been on the road since March or April, so he’s been pretty busy. 
KNAC.COM: I remember that he missed the L.A. show. VERA: Yeah, because he was doing stuff… I think he was in Europe that time, so we got Craig Anderson, who plays with Knight, and he is filling in for Pete doing the shows with us. So it’s kind of weird. We really haven’t done anything to be a band. I mean, bands do stuff, like they go to rehearsal, they play gigs together, that sort of thing, and that’s what bands do. We’ve never had a reason or an opportunity to do it, so it’s been weird. But we had four days of rehearsal before we did these shows last month, and we did a bunch of California shows, and it was awesome. KNAC.COM: That changed the dynamic a little bit. VERA: It has, and it’s been SO much fun. I’m glad, because making the records are actually fun, because they are very low pressure. Both records have been done in remote areas -- we haven’t done them in a real “studio” so we’ve never had the clock ticking on the wall, and the studio manager coming in saying, “You know, I’ve been here for ten hours. You’ve got to go home now, or we’re going to start charging you overtime.” We’ve never had any of that, so really it was a couple of guys sitting around, drinking a lot of beer, and making a record, creating music. And that, to me, is the best way to ever do it, anytime. KNAC.COM: The pressure is off, you can go at your own pace and do it right and not be rushed. VERA: Yep, and we don’t have a lot of pressure from the label. They pretty much let us do our thing so it’s just been easy and great. That so far has translated over to being a band, you know, playing gigs and traveling around together. We used to do nothing but sit around and laugh all the time, so it’s really, really cool. The true test will be the tour, if we get this tour, and I think it’s going to be an extended tour; I think it’s going to be at least four weeks, so that will be the true test. You might have to ask me that question in October or November when we’re all done. Those sorts of things change when you’re living with people. I mean, I’ve toured with Ray before, and we had no problems. I’m not saying that any of us will have problems because I don’t think we really will, but the dynamic, as you pointed out, does change when you go from having a few rehearsals and a few live gigs to being in a bus or a van traveling around the country playing five to six nights a week four weeks straight. KNAC.COM: Plus it takes priority and it becomes the forefront; this is the thing you’re doing, as opposed to, “Oh well, I’ll just do this whenever I have time.” VERA: Exactly. You have to be totally committed. Otherwise you, or someone, will be miserable if you’re not into it, and somebody will have a lot of bad days in a row. I think everyone is ready for it, though. We’ve all talked about how much we need to tour and how much we want to do this. Bernie is finishing up his record with Agent Steel. They’re still working on it, so he’s still busy with it. But I know he’s going to want to go out and do this. Ray, of course, well, Ray is getting ready to do another Fates Warning record at the end of the year (so I’m told), so he can’t really afford to just sit around and wait for Engine to do anything for too long, so he’s ready to just go out and do this. And I am too. I’m moving some things around in my schedule to do it, so I want to do it. Everyone wants to be there. KNAC.COM: So if and when the W.A.S.P. tour – and we’ll say when – happens, when will that be happening? VERA: I’m told it’s starting in mid to late September and will go (I heard) until Halloween, which sounds awfully long to me, so about four or five weeks.
VERA: I like breaks. I don’t like being away from home for more than two weeks. [laughs] I have a three-week threshold. I always talk about it. The first week is always great. You’re in la-la land; it’s like going on a camping trip. You’re all giddy and everything’s funny, and everything’s just happy-go-lucky. The second week it starts to wear down a bit, because it’s the second week. It starts to become more like, “Okay, we’re working here.” We’re doing gigs five nights a week, six nights a week, sometimes more, so that’s the next mental phase. Then the third week comes along and you’re like, “Okay, I want to go home now. I’ve had enough of this.” That’s when the heavy drinking kicks in, in the third week. So the third and fourth weeks are a blur. The first two weeks you have a lot of memories, because the first week everything is new. Your transportation… KNAC.COM: It’s a different situation, just a change of scenery. VERA: Yeah, it’s like moving in with a new roommate. The first week is getting to know them. I don’t know; it’s just new. The second week you start figuring out your own space and, “Okay, where do I fit in here?” “What are they all about?” Everybody’s in their own little world. And by the third week, it’s like, I hate to say it, but it becomes work in a way. Nothing wrong with that, but it just becomes a little more… KNAC.COM: Well, you figure that IS your job. That is what you’re doing; you’re out there entertaining the masses. VERA: It IS work. There’s no doubt about it. But I’d rather do nothing else. I’m just talking about this threshold thing. The third week is when it begins to kick in. That’s just me personally. Maybe some people… I’ve met some people that say that, if they could, they’d stay on the road nine months out of the year. I just look at them and say, “You’re out of your mind.” [laughs] But I enjoy coming home, having some days off at home, obviously family and friends at home are a big part of my life, and I don’t like to be away from that too long. I like to stay reconnected. Ideally for me it would be great to do two weeks, have a week off, two weeks, a week off, two weeks…. but you know… I don’t really like touring all that much. It’s weird, though, because but the thing that I do love most about all this, you said it earlier, and I said it too, is that hour onstage. And for me, if it wasn’t for that, I probably wouldn’t be doing any of this. That’s part of touring obviously, you going out there and playing. And for the most part, I’d say eight out of ten times, I have a great time. There’s always those couple of days where I’m just not into it, there’s something not right in the room, there’s something not right with the crowd, and it’s not fun. But I’d say about eight out of ten times, I have a great time playing live. So that comes with touring. So it’s a tradeoff of the three-week threshold, or do you enjoy playing? And I think it comes down to just never being satisfied. [laughs] KNAC.COM: But that gives you the opportunity to go out there and actually get on that stage. If you were at home, you wouldn’t have a chance to go out there and do it every single night like that. 
VERA: No, no. It’s a weird thing. The other thing about touring is that you get really good at it when you’re playing six nights a week. You get really good. When you do a couple of shows here and there… unless you’re playing every day, it’s like if you’re a marathon runner or an athlete of some sort, you have to work out. And it’s a workout performing. So unless you’re doing it every day, you’re never really going to get up to ten. So doing it six, seven nights a week, the band starts to get really good… as individuals, musicianship, personally, as a performer, as a group together, you get really, really good. And that again, is something that really everyone should be striving for, including myself. I’m kind of contradicting myself a little bit, but I’m just complaining, really. [chuckles]
KNAC.COM: Well, the good thing is, being out there you’re playing every night, and it’s like a rehearsal all the time, so it becomes part of your normal routine. You don’t really even have to think about it; you just go out there and do it. VERA: Yep, and I love it when it gets to that point. Even though maybe I complain and I say, “Aw, it feels like a job today; I want to go home; the three-week threshold is in effect,” the bottom line is that we are up to speed, and everyone is on. You’re performing well, and you’re doing good… KNAC.COM: A well-oiled machine. VERA: Yeah, and you really notice it. For some reason you have two days off in a row and you come back on that third day -- you wouldn’t really think those two days would matter -- but you come back on that third day to play, and you lose a lot of momentum. You kind of have to take a few steps back and start over. KNAC.COM: I’m always amazed at how busy you stay, because you’re always doing something every time I talk to you. VERA: Um-hmmm. KNAC.COM: It’s been three years since the first Engine record. Since then there’s been two Armored Saint records, a Fates Warning record as well as your recent tour with Seven Witches. How do you balance all the projects? How difficult is it to switch gears and get into that particular “mindset,” seeing how each band is so different? VERA: It’s hard to change mindsets. That’s probably the hardest thing. Luckily, the schedule thing hasn’t been that much of a pain yet. There’s been a few things that have been crossed, mainly with Fates Warning and Armored Saint, but it hasn’t been really that hard. I’ve been pretty lucky I think, as far as scheduling and things like that. I think, as I was telling you earlier, I have a hard time feeling creative when I have so many things going on. When I was touring with Seven Witches, I brought a little recording unit with me and I thought, “Yeah I’ll write some Armored Saint music while I’m out on the road.” And I don’t know, it just never happened. I just could never… KNAC.COM: Well, it’s got to be difficult, say if you’re in the particular mindset for Seven Witches, and when you’re trying to concentrate on Armored Saint, it’s almost like it rocks the boat a little bit. VERA: Yeah, mentally it rocks the boat. It does. KNAC.COM: And especially like we were just talking about, when you’re out there just doing it, you’ve got the momentum, and you’re in total Seven Witches mode, and then you try to switch that, it just throws everything off kilter. 
VERA: It’s pretty weird. I’m not really that good at that. Some people can do that, like have those three-layer thought patterns where they’re simultaneously thinking three different things, or they’re involved with three different things or something like that. I have a hard time doing that. I prefer, and maybe it’s just a little bit of laziness, but I prefer to finish one thing and put it aside, do this, concentrate on this and don’t do anything on either side, put that away, go on to this thing. But, schedule and time don’t always allow you to do that. Sometimes you’re forced into having to do, or at least have in your mind to think about, two or three different things at the same time. So it’s not always practical. Like this thing, what’s going on right now in my head, a large part of my goals right now, is to get this Engine record happening. We don’t have a manager, so I’m kind of trying to be… not the manager or the bandleader, but I’m trying to light a fire under everyone’s asses to get this record going. If I don’t do it, I don’t think anyone else will do it. Ray will understand when I say that he’s not that good at doing it. He’s just not. He doesn’t care, and I don’t blame him. It’s a pain in the ass to be that person, and he doesn’t really want to do it. He doesn’t care and he doesn’t have, I don’t know, the enthusiasm or maybe it’s the tolerance for it.
KNAC.COM: “Just put the mic in front of me and let me sing.” VERA: Yeah, he just wants to be the singer, and that’s fine. That’s totally cool, and he’s great at what he does. So I have been helping him a lot with all this stuff that goes on with the band, doing the tour managing for the band when we’re playing out, or doing the books and setting up budgets, all those sort of things, also trying to get the label excited. I mean, the record’s only been out since May, so it’s not that old, but if we don’t get out on the road and do anything for it, it’s just going to fall by the wayside… again. So I’m trying to resurrect it and not let it go that way, so I’m constantly talking to people at the label, talking to Ray, just whatever… the booking agent, Buckingham, probably hates me because I call him all the time. [laughs] So I’m doing all this stuff for Engine because I really care about this record and I want this record to have at least a fair shot. I want people to see the band live more than anything. With some luck it looks like it might happen come September. On the other side of the coin -– my answers are really long winded, I realize -– this Seven Witches thing that I kind of got involved in. Jack Frost, who is the leader of the band, asked me to be more involved. He wants me to produce and engineer the next record, but he also wants me to play bass on it and he wants me to contribute music. So then I’m forced with that, trying to be creative in that sense… KNAC.COM: Popular and in demand. [laughs] VERA: Trying to contribute something creatively, musically and stuff. This is what I was telling you about earlier, I haven’t been able to do anything like that for a long time because I have this problem with not being able to separate my different projects. It creates inertia with me and makes me stop, which is unfortunate, but it slows me down and it clogs me up like a funnel or something, but anyway… This is my new challenge right now recently, to be creative. I actually picked up my guitar for the first time in six months, trying to write music in between phone calls about the budget here and Engine and the record, and Metal Blade and interviews or whatever, and trying to be creative with trying to contribute something to this other project that I’m in. So that’s a specific example. KNAC.COM: The joy of multi-tasking. VERA: I’m not even sure I’m going to be successful at either one, but it can be hard to do. KNAC.COM: It’s the kind of thing you can’t really even think about, you just have to jump in with both feet and just do it. VERA: You have to just do it. Sometimes I’ll be so in thought about all these various things, and Tracy will come home from work or call me on the phone, and I’ll just have this blank stare on my face because I’m elsewhere, so it can be hard. [laughs] KNAC.COM: I can imagine. So what’s going to be coming up for you, say for the rest of the year? Let’s see, we’ve got the Engine tour that’s going to be happening potentially in September… VERA: Yep, hopefully that will be in September. 
KNAC.COM: Seven Witches, you’re working with that. VERA: Yeah, I don’t know when I’m fitting that in or how we’re doing it yet. But supposedly we’re going to be doing a new record, maybe partially before I leave and then we’ll finish it when I get back. So that would be like the first two weeks of September doing some recording with Seven Witches. I think that’s optimistic; more than likely… I don’t know what’s going to happen, but my involvement won’t be until later, so I’m saying, I’m holding to early November doing that, that probably will last until the end of November. And then that’s about it. The only other thing that’s kind of pending is, there’s a band in Italy called Power Symphony. I produced their record for them in 1998 in Italy, and they want me to come back and do another record with them. But they wanted to do it in October, so now that’s going to get pushed back. Seven Witches is behind that and so it’s all getting pushed back… I probably won’t want to do [Power Symphony] in December; it’s just too hard to work around the holidays. It’s too tough, so… they don’t know this yet, but if they’re reading KNAC.COM, they’ll find that I’m trying to push this back to January [laughs]. Actually, that reminds me, I’m supposed to get in touch with them as soon as possible. They’re waiting for my answer, and they’ve been asking, “What’s your schedule with Engine? What’s your schedule with Seven Witches?” Now I’m finally beginning to start to figure it out, so I might just do that by the end of the year. Then I think Fates Warning, so I’m told, is going to be recording around -- again, it’s trying to get that multi-layered thinking thing going -- they’re supposed to be recording in January or February, so I’ll probably be busy at least the first of the year. And then there’s always another Armored Saint record, although I don’t know when that’s supposed to happen yet. It was supposed to happen this year, but it didn’t. KNAC.COM: Probably a lot of it depends on the Anthrax release? VERA: Yeah. I don’t know what’s going on with them now. KNAC.COM: I heard it was pushed back to early next year. VERA: I did hear they got another setback. But I think it’s coming out in Europe. Is it coming out in Europe this fall? KNAC.COM: I’m not sure. VERA: Because they have different deals. I mean, I can’t speak for Anthrax, but with us, we have deals in Europe and Japan that are separate from America, so they might put something out in the fall or winter and then try to get it out in the U.S. around January or February. I don’t know, but that does kind of leave a window open for Armored Saint, and the label, Metal Blade, really wanted us to have a record done by March, but that ain’t gonna happen. KNAC.COM: You know, I always get asked questions about when Armored Saint has a new record coming out, when you’re going to tour again, and so on. VERA: My standard answer is these days, probably in a year, but not that July is a great time to release a record. I don’t know when that’s going to be. KNAC.COM: It’s just a matter of time, of getting everyone together. 
VERA: The thing with Armored Saint is that we do really well in Europe, so the European office likes us to have a record out in the early part of the year so that we can play all the festivals in the summer and then do a European tour in the fall, like October or November. But that means you have to turn in a record -- they have a three-month lead time -- so if they want to have a record out by like March or April, which is ideal for them, you have to turn it in by January 1st. This year that’s severely pushing it, although you never know. Maybe this sudden spark of creativity will flourish, and there will be open window and opportunities, and everyone will want to do a record, and it will happen. But it’s looking unlikely. I’m only saying that because of the Anthrax record more than anything. So if you look at it in those terms, it probably wouldn’t make sense for the next Armored Saint record to come out until March of 2004, but that sounds like a LONG way away. [laughs]
KNAC.COM: Yes it does. There’ll be a lot of disappointed people out there. VERA: [laughs] So I don’t want to say that it will take that long. I hope it doesn’t take that long, because that’s too long for me even. KNAC.COM: Well, maybe something will work out where you can do a U.S. tour before then, in the meantime. You never know… VERA: You never know. Never say never. KNAC.COM: Well good luck on the record and the forthcoming tour and all the many projects. VERA: Thank you. And thank you for spending time with me. That was really cool. ********************** For more information on Engine, check out sorcerystudios.com or metalblade.com Catch Engine in concert: Fri 08/09/02 Anaheim, CA, The Shack Sat 08/10/02 Reseda, CA, Paladino's Sun 08/11/02 Concord, CA, Bourbon Street (Live photos by Stephanie Cabral & studio photos by Alex Solca)
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