“Dug couldn’t walk past a flower or a mouse and not give it love. He’s a pleasure of a human being to know and call a friend”, says GRINDER BLUES drummer SCOTT BIHLMAN of bassist/frontman DUG PINNICK. GRINDER BLUES is releasing a new album titled El Dos on Metalville on September 24th, 2021. KNAC.COM caught up with drummer SCOTT BIHLMAN and his brother/guitarist JABO BIHLMAN on August 27th, 2021. The first part of this feature spotlights the Bihlmans and the second features Pinnick, who we caught with on September 2nd, 2021. “He’s the most ‘musical’ person that I have ever met. What I mean by that is, it’s flowing out of him constantly. There is no ‘downtime’ with him. He’s either working with us, KXM, KING’S X or his own solo stuff. He never stops writing, it’s always good stuff and he’s really amazing. I’ve never seen someone create so much music. I think he does it, because he has to,” says JABO BIHLMAN of Pinnick’s creativity and work ethic. If you like your rock music with a heavy blues influence then look no further than GRINDER BLUES. Read on.
KNAC.COM: What’s the story behind the album cover of El Dos?
SCOTT: Wyatt? Everybody loves Wyatt! He’s my dog, he’s 16 years old. He’s been on the road with me, he’s been on buses and trains. WILLIE NELSON loves this dog! He’s died and gone to heaven once already! When it came time to decide on something for the cover of the record this picture came up and we’re like 'that’s the cover of the record'. We’re all huge ZZ TOP fans and that picture just bleeds that Texas Tres Hombres attitude.
KNAC.COM: Tell me about the band’s sound. Like you stated, there’s some ZZ TOP in there, but I also heard MOUNTAIN, CREAM and bands like that.
SCOTT: We’re rockers for sure but my brother and I are also into gospel and of course blues. We are primarily a ‘jam band’ There’s no rules on the record. I play guitar and sing, everyone plays guitar on the record. I didn’t tell Dug [Pinnick] what to play. I didn’t tell my brother [JABO BIHLMAN] what to play and they didn’t tell me what to play. This was just such a refreshing way to make a record.
KNAC.COM: I love all the ingredients that make this band and the influences.
SCOTT: Thank you. It’s just inbedded in us. Dug was born in Illinois and my brother and I are from Chicago. We’re just all ‘classic rock’ based. For better or worse that is us.
KNAC.COM: So the blueprint for this was to not ‘overthink’ things?
SCOTT: That was totally it in my opinion, but Jabo can chime in on that. It was a ‘shotgun’ approach and we started throwing things together. We’re all songwriters so we have a strong grip on song structures...
JABO: I think for this record I had some more, somewhat prepared ideas, than for the first record. We wrote most of this stuff for the most part on the fly, but I did have some ideas of where we wanted to start and then everyone jumped in. That’s the beautiful thing about this band. Everyone jumps in with their parts and it sounds like us. As far as ‘overthinking’ it? You’re right, we didn’t do that. I think when you speak to Dug he’ll say the same thing, we talked about things after we laid down basic tracks and when it came time to record vocals and leads. It was minimal. It was more figuring out the direction. The solos on this album are all pretty much stuff that I did on the fly. There were probably a couple of takes. That’s really what this band is all about. It’s really raw and there’s not a lot of pyrotechnics; it's like we’re doing it as if it were a live show.
SCOTT: The one thing that I think we talked about and planned was our vocal harmonies.
KNAC.COM: The 10 songs that made it onto El Dos, were there ideas that were brought in or were these written together as a jam?
JABO: The first single that the label selected, “Gotta Get Me Some of That”, was already an idea prior to going into this record. We had worked on that song in my house in Las Vegas fairly extensively. It was a jam instrumental song and we hadn’t talked about how we’d make it into a vocal track to make the first record. We knew we wanted to use it on the second record, so we gave it to Dug and he took it and made it into a funk tune! I think this song is really reminiscent of 70s funk. It’s got this sparse lyric content...it’s really ‘P-Funky’. I’m totally down with that. It was similar to what happened on the first record with the song “Grinder Blues”.
I had this idea already and Scott and I may have already recorded it at my house and my studio. Then we sent it to Dug and he came back with a completely different vocal line than I had sent him. What I had was something that was more ‘standard’, but what he came back with was completely off the wall! We all loved it!
KNAC.COM: I’m glad you brought up “Gotta Get Me Some of That”. I love that song. I love the simplicity lyrically and the funk influence in that. I love the video with the sketches and the collage treatments...
SCOTT: It’s SchoolHouse Rock like! [laughs]
JABO: It is! [laughs]
KNAC.COM: I hope that gets you guys some attention for sure.
SCOTT: Well, that video was the right budget! [laughs] That’s more our budget, you draw us and then you cut us out! [laughs]
JABO: I’m really happy with the end result! I’m very happy with what they did with it.
KNAC.COM: I know there was mention that this song goes back to the first album. Was there anything else that dated back to that time?
JABO: I feel like that song was the very first thing that we ever worked on. I had the riff and the idea already. I think that was the only thing that had been laying around. We left it alone when we had the 10 songs for the last album. I think the last record had a consistent direction, where El Dos has a wider reach like you said.
SCOTT: The first record we cut in like three days! We had a longer process on this one. We recorded it in Cleveland, Mississippi. We had about a half day to go down to the crossroads and check that out. It was so badass! We were in this gigantic studio. It’s probably been the biggest room I’ve been in recording wise. You’ll see some of the pictures in the CD and the vinyl. It was just such a fun experience.
JABO: I’ve been doing some production work with other people and it’s just not the same to send this to this person and that to another and then wait for them to get them back to you. It’s just so much better to have everyone in the same room and jam it out. I think that if you focus on getting all the rhythm tracks done in the studio together, everything else will just fall into place. I think if you lay the bedrock for the album together then the rest will follow. I think that’s part of the reason that this album sounds so groovy.
SCOTT: As the drummer, I think if you record the rhythm guitar, bass and drums, it pushes enough air and it’s loose enough, to give it that organic feel. I agree with Jabo with farming things out then waiting to get them back and synching them up on a computer...it loses that ‘goosepimple’ factor.
KNAC.COM: The album El Dos is set for release on September 24th.
JABO: I can’t wait. I personally can’t wait to hear it on vinyl. I’ll have to buy a stereo! [laughs]
KNAC.COM: That you got rid of 25 years ago!
JABO: It was probably 40 years ago! [laughs] Our producer told me that the LP mix is different so I want to hear it.
KNAC.COM: Do you hope to take this to the stage? I know you’ve done some live appearances in the past.
SCOTT: We hope to!
JABO: I agree. I think with Covid it’s hard. I got into this business to play live, not just do stuff in the studio.
SCOTT: We’d love to do it and maybe we can make that happen. We also have to take into account Dug’s schedule with other things that he’s involved in. I spoke to the label and I was told that they’d be working on it. I think they have a great team there.
KNAC.COM: Too bad Dug isn’t on here but you guys could really work him to death, if you got a tour with KING’S X, KXM and GRINDER BLUES! He’d have to work out a little more, take a little more vitamins...
SCOTT: He’s the only guy on stage that’s going to take his shirt off! [laughs] If anyone else did that it could go from a rock show to a comedy show, real quick! [laughs]
JABO: We’ll ask him and see what he says! [laughs]
SCOTT: We’re ready to get out and play. We’re taking offers! Bring a mask! [laughs] This going to be a KNAC thing? I still have my old t-shirt! [laughs]
KNAC.COM: Describe your brother in one word.
SCOTT: [laughs]
JABO: [laughs]
SCOTT: Enigma! [laughs] And an acquired taste! [laughs]
JABO: Difficult! [laughs] In my time playing music with my brother I’d have to say ‘groove’.
And then there was Dug….
KNAC.COM: I missed GRINDER BLUES the first time around. I didn’t know there was a debut record.
PINNICK: Nobody knew! [laughs]
KNAC.COM: When I spoke with the Bihlman brothers they said that Megaforce [Records] didn’t do a lot of promotion behind it. You put a lot of effort in writing and recording the album and it doesn’t get heard.
PINNICK: They sure didn’t. That’s the story of my life! [laughs] It wasn’t a disappointment in that I thought we made a great record, we put it out there. Those that heard it heard it. Those that didn’t, didn’t. I’ve put out so many projects that I felt were pretty good that no one paid attention to. For me personally, I do it because I love to do this and hopefully there’s a few people that will get into it. It’s really rough...I’m not someone that is super famous. It’s not a guarantee that everything that I put out...DAVE GROHL puts something out and everybody buys it, no matter what it is. For me, it’s never been that way, there are people that follow what I do, they buy and listen to it and get what they can out of it. To me that is the most important thing for me now, at 70 years old, I’m not worried about having a hit. I’ve got social security and KING’S X and that’s fine for me! We put out records, we play shows, things work out. While it doesn’t bother me now, it probably would have years ago. The thing about Megaforce...I know Missi [Calazzo] at Megaforce, we talk too deeply about it. I think at that time when we did the first GRINDER BLUES record, I was doing KXM and something else. I had so many things going on that I left GRINDER BLUES to the brothers. Whenever we’re ready to play, I’m ready to do my part. When it comes to everything else, I leave it to them, because I have so much going on! [laughs] They talked to Missi. I love Missi, we know each other well, but I didn’t talk to her once about that album. Maybe I should have gotten involved and the word would have gotten out? Who knows? Maybe they thought that I didn’t care? I forget that most of the time people take things that I do more seriously that I realize.
KNAC.COM: How did you meet the Bihlman brothers?
PINNICK: SCOTT [BIHLHAM] was at a party at RAY LUZIER’s house, who now plays in KXM and KORN. It was about 10 years ago, it could have been a little longer. Scott and I started talking and he asked about my move to L.A. I had only been there for a couple of months at that time. I was just broke and trying to figure it out! [laughs] It was 2010 or so and any musicians that didn’t have a big record deal were starving. I knew some people in L.A. so I figured that move would help me meet more people and write songs and get them into movies or a TV show. If I would have written “Movin’ On Up To The Eastside”, I’d be a zillionaire right now! [laughs] I figured I’d try my hand at that. Scott mentioned that and his brother had a few songs placed in a couple movies and a TV show. So we got together to start writing some tunes, when we found that our blues influences were really close to each other, I think it was me that suggested that we do a record like ZZ TOP’s Tres Hombres. Take the music back to basics, but remain creative like ZZ TOP. I have always thought there is something so special about that record. We went for it and that’s how the first record came together.
KNAC.COM: I hear all of that stuff in El Dos, I hear ZZ TOP, MOUNTAIN, some CREAM, all the ‘power trio’ elements from those classic bands, along with funk, soul and blues influence. What a great mix. It’s ‘modern classic rock’.
PINNICK: Awesome! Well, I’m old, so I’ll take it! [laughs] I think it should sound like that because classic rock is my biggest influence.
KNAC.COM: You have a video for “Gotta Get Some of That”, how did that video come together? This is what a lyric video should be, it doesn’t seem like one, but it is. It’s really well done.
PINNICK: The record company put it together. Then they sent it to us to see what we thought about it. We looked at each other and said, “Great”. We love it! [laughs] We were very happy with it. Lyric videos, I’d like to keep those to the artists. I think those kids really know what they’re doing.
KNAC.COM: It’s very simple and effective.
PINNICK: I agree.
KNAC.COM: Is there talk about getting another video out before the September 24th release date?
PINNICK: I don’t know. I would assume that they’ll put one out for “Who Wants A Spankin’”. That one is so commercial and so universal. That’s actually about Jabo’s kids jumping on the bed at night time when they were trying to sleep. He’d jokingly come into their bedroom and say, “Who wants a spankin’? I told you to go to sleep”. [laughs] He was telling us the story and that came out while we were writing lyrics for that song! [laughs] I sang, “Who wants a spankin’” three times and Jabo answered, “Well, I do”. It was perfect and we went from there.
KNAC.COM: GRINDER BLUES will continue to be an ongoing project, time permitting?
PINNICK: That’s what I hope. I see everything that I do outside of KING’S X that way.
KNAC.COM: What is your standout performance on this record, either on vocals or on bass or both?
PINNICK: [long pause] That’s a hard one...let me pull up the song list right now! I think “Another Way Around” is my favorite song for one reason, because it’s a true story of what happened. I was driving in Cleveland, Mississippi to make this record. Cleveland, Mississippi is where the blues were born. There’s a blues college there. Our producer invited us down there to make the record, because we didn’t have any money to make the record and we did it in a classroom. The cool thing is that The Dockery plantation was right down the street. The ‘cross roads’ are right down the street. My dad grew up in the town of Batesville, Mississippi. His last name was Bates, he was a decendent of slavery. Batesville was 10 miles from Cleveland, where we recorded the album. Then the Choctaw Indian reservation where my grandmother was born 10 miles the other way. I didn’t know any of this until I went there! “Another Way Around”, I was driving there, I had about 45 miles left. It took me like 3 hours to get there. I go to this corner. There’s no curves on these roads. It was just the highway and I followed the GPS. I came up to a right turn. There was this old two lane rickety bridge. It went up and I could not see the top of it! It scared me. There were these lights that were dangling in the middle of the bridge. I got on the bridge and it went “Clump, clump. Clump clump”. I went all the way until I got to the top. Then I looked around and all I could see was black! This was at like 1 A.M in the morning. I almost had a heart attack! When I got the car down to the bottom of the otherside I said, “I am not coming back this way! I will find another way around”. [laughs] So when it came time to record this song, we called it “Another Way Around”. That’s a true story! [laughs] I love all the songs though, because they are all so fun. There’s nothing ‘deep’ on this record. There aren't going to be any calls asking me if I’m Christian or if I’m angry at God or anything like that. I get letters from people asking about my lyrics in the past because I get so deep. Not on this record. We decided that this would be bluse based, lyrically we would stay down in the cotton fields. Let’s not get political or anything like that. Let’s just stick to the basics. There’s the song “Keep Away” which is about people who want to drag you into their drama. It’s about keeping away from that. It’s the only song that you can say is deeper than the rest. I think! [laughs]
KNAC.COM: And then there’s the sound.
PINNICK: Yeah, we tuned our guitars two steps lower to make it heavier.
KNAC.COM: It is heavy. It is heavy.
PINNICK: I don’t think I notice that myself, because I’m just used to this sound in all the bands that I play in. People always say, “Hey Dug, that’s heavy”. I’m like, “That’s just the way we play”. [laughs] I wish I could step outside the box sometimes and hear it from someone else’s perspective.
KNAC.COM: When I spoke to the guys about promotion for the record, I brought up about perhaps doing a tour with KING’S X, KXM and GRINDER BLUES….
PINNICK: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo! [laughs] It would kill me! I wouldn’t do double duty as a singer and bass player. Then add another band? [laughs] No way! [laughs] I don’t mean to complain but a singer that plays a guitar is already doing a double job, even though he might not get credit for it or get paid for it. People forget that.
KNAC.COM: It would be a DUG PINNICK fan’s dream to see KING’S X, KXM and GRINDER BLUES all in one night!
PINNICK: [bursts into laughter]
KNAC.COM: We’d have to have a memorial for you at the end.
PINNICK: [laughs] I think so. At 70 years old are you kidding me?! [laughs]
KNAC.COM: You released a JIMI HENDRIX cover record a few years ago on Rat Pak [Records]. I really enjoyed that. It was very underappreciated. Have you ever thought of doing a ROBERT JOHNSON tribute record?
PINNICK: Thank you. No, I haven't thought about that. I think I have so many songs of my own that I haven’t recorded that I think I will focus on original material or may do songs that changed my life. There are so many, probably like 100 of them, there’s some from bands that I would see in the clubs that never even got signed. I’d like to do something like that. I want to do that someday. I would need help on that because it would be quite an undertaking. I have like 35 songs that I’ve written that have to go on a record somewhere. My new solo record is done and it will be out next month. We’ll be starting the campaign on that in a few weeks. It’s called Joy Bomb. There’s 12 songs on that and then there’s the new KING’S X record and it is finished and we’re getting ready to put that out early next year [2022]. I wrote 27 songs for that! There’s just too many songs! With the whole pandemic and spending time at home...I have a different perspective on everything. Like with everyone else, I think it’s allowed us to rethink a lot of things. I’ve done that and I feel like I’ve got my ‘second wind’ in music. It blows my mind because I will be 71 in three days and I’m still getting to do this. I’m just glad to still be here and thankful that I can still do this and that it still means something to some people.
KNAC.COM: That’s fucking great!
PINNICK: [laughs] I think so! [laughs]
KNAC.COM: I’m glad you’re still doing it.
PINNICK: Thank you! [laughs] You know I’d like to make a t-shirt that says ‘Fuck’ and ‘Nigger’ on it then on the back it will read “Not responsible for anyone that beats you up for wearing this”. [laughs]
KNAC.COM: Is that possible Dug?!
PINNICK: We have fought generations over those two words. I’m like, “Stop it”. Black people can say that all the time, my family has said it, we’ve said it to each other, then we put it in rap music. Then it sells billions of records to white kids, then we expect them to not say it? Are you fucking kidding me?! Come on people! I KNOW when someone uses Nigger as a racist slur and I know when they don’t. All people do. It’s just something in the way that they say it. You can hear it, you can feel it. It gives you goosebumps. White people are afraid to say anything now. Wow. We’ve made people so afraid to even ask a simple question. Then there’s the word ‘fuck’, the only reason that’s bad is because kids use it to be rebellious, that’s all. [laughs] There’s no other reason for it! [laughs]
KNAC.COM: If given the opportunity would you do something live with this band?
PINNICK: We have [in the past], we will, you’d better believe it! [laughs] I love playing live with this band! We did a Scandinavian tour for about three weeks. It was all the dive bars across Scandinavia that held 30, 40, 50 people. They had drums, guitar and a PA on stage. We grabbed our guitars and Scott grabbed his sticks. That’s it! We got in a car and drove across Scandinavia for three weeks. It was so much fun. We’d have dinner. We’d have a couple of drinks and get on stage and rock the house! It was so much fun! That was probably some of the most fun I’ve ever had on a tour. It’s simple, it’s easy, it’s fun and you can throw all of your emotions into it. You don’t have to worry about time signatures and key changes and all of that. I want to sound like I’m complaining about being in a prog-metal/gospel rock band. I love it, don’t get me wrong. GRINDER BLUES is such a different animal. It’s something that I love and missed in being a musician. You need all of those sides to feel whole.
KNAC.COM: There’s a separation between what you do with KING’S X, KXM, your solo stuff and now GRINDER BLUES.
PINNICK: Yeah, KING'S X is the band that you don’t want to divorce because of the kids and the rest of the bands are the girlfriends! [laughs] We’re having a really great time!
KNAC.COM: I can’t let you go without asking you about TRES MTS. Thoughts on that band and record?
PINNICK: That’s one of those records that I wish I could redo. Only because, I don’t think I was in a good mindset at that point. I think that was a time in my life where I was kind of lost. Music wasn’t happening. I was broke and I didn’t know what I was doing. I kind of lost myself and Jeff [Ament] called me up to make a record with him and Richard [Stuverud]. We flew up to his place. We spent a week there. I was like, “What am I going to do? I play bass and as far as I know Jeff doesn’t play guitar”. I only took my guitar. I would play guitar in the band. It would be fun. It was a lot of fun, but then I had to come up with lyrics immediately. It usually takes me a couple months to come up with lyrics. That’s always been the case with me, it’s how I work. I struggled with the lyrics and I wish they could have been a little more artistic. I felt rushed to get the vocals in. It’s nobody’s fault, it was just the way it had to be for that album. I have a hard time with that album from that aspect. Aside from that, I really like the songs, but I do wish I would have had more time to work on them a little bit more. I went back a month later and Jeff brought MIKE MCCREADY out and the four of us got together and we wrote 8 more songs! So on that album the first half is a three piece and the second half is a four piece.
KNAC.COM: Is TRES MTS something that you’d like to revisit if the opportunity presents itself?
PINNICK: Yeah, we’ve talked about it in passing. We agree that we should do that again. You never know. I think someone has to step forward and get things moving forward. In this day and age, we’re all busy doing our own things, so it might take someone outside of us to get us together to do it again.
KNAC.COM: Do you have a good story about meeting someone that influenced and impacted you as an artist? What was that like?
PINNICK: Hmmmmm….I’ve ever met an idol. I’ve never met STEVIE WONDER or ARETHA FRANKLIN or RAY CHARLES. I have met a lot of famous people, a lot of huge rockstars. They weren’t my peers. I can say I met them and we had a good time and they’re amazing people, but for my jaw to be on the ground? I think one of the few people that I would love to meet is BONO. I relate to BONO in a way that I don’t relate to anything else that I do in music. There was a heart and soul in the album Boy, in his voice and his attitude and his clarity of his confusion. Which was me at that time. He helped me understand me and he helped me be honest and he helped me change my lyrics. I started writing about myself and feelings that people didn’t talk about. You need to be saved and you need JESUS! That was the type of bullshit that I was writing in 1980 because I was still a Christian. When I heard “Gloria”....also the media really loved U2. I heard that they were Christians, that made me realize this can be done out there in the regular world. You can be a Christain and you can make music the way that you want to make it. Those were the things that hit me. When he did the song “Gloria”, I thought he was singing a song about this chick. I never thought that would be coming, then all of a sudden he was singing praises to GOD in latin! I was like, “You’ve gotta fucking be kidding me! This is a whole new approach to ANYTHING that I ever knew”. I knew being a Christian it was hard to go out there and sing about your faith, because no one was going to give a fuck. I wanted to go out there and make music, but I didn’t know what to do because I had to be honest with what I felt. BONO helped me say, “No, you don’t know who you are. You might be a Christian but you don’t have the answers”. He also taught me to be honest with it, because that’s all people want is honesty. I realized that I was being a hypocrite and pointing fingers at people. So it was at that point that everything changed, even musically I changed. I was all into that ‘new wave’ of music that included bands like BIG COUNTRY, SIMPLE MINDS and everything else that came along. THE POLICE! Stuff like that. I was in! You should hear that period’s demos! [laughs] You could say this is THE POLICE or this is U2. [laughs] So, BONO is the guy I’d like to meet, but I’d only like to meet him if he was a KING’S X fan. Other than that, I don’t think there’s a way that I could ever connect with him as a person. He’s a millionaire rockstar and I’m nobody. As much as I’d like to believe that he’d be very personable and very cool...I want more than that! [laughs] Sly [Stone] is another person I’d like to meet, but I couldn't talk to him because he’s crazy! [laughs] He’s not fun to talk to. All he wants to do is talk about himself! [laughs] I’ve met some pretty big people that I looked up to and in talking to them...I don’t want to be like that! [laughs] I would love to go over to ARETHA FRANKLIN’s house and have some cookies and fried chicken! [laughs]
